Windows is better than Linux for home users ????

General discussion about Linux, Linux distribution, using Linux etc.

Windows is better than Linux for home users ????

Postby Tauseef » Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:50 am

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html


Hmmm... that comes from the leader of Linux community ... RedHat.

Isn't that strange. Especially after changing their pricing model and starting a community-based-Fedora project. I wonder if M$ has insted a little in Redhat (Under the table) ???? As RedHat is one of the biggest competition for Windows.

I would like to see how Suse, Mandrake or Lindows (and ops of this forum) react to this statement ???


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Postby Faraz.Fazil » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:06 am

Well the statement is true and valid but till a certain extent and is conditional.

Linux is a complete OS suited both to Bussinnesses as well as Advanced home users.

Linux is good both as a server side as well as a desktop OS.

The thing is linux does not fall short as a desktop OS.Just that it needs to mature a bit more and needs to become more commonly used as a desktop os as well

Using Linux as a desktop OS, is indeed not such an easy task for home users who may be first time linux users.They need time and skills to learn it.especially if they start encountering errors at the first place.

In my opinion , Using Linux as a desktop OS is not that difficult at all for advanced or skilled computer users.But the average beginner level computer user will indeed have a hard time when using linux for the first time.

In my opinion, with time, Linux will definitely mature a lot more as a desktop OS as well...and it has already matured a lot in the previous years.

Even at the moment, Linux Home users like me do exist.

I do almost everything in linux that can be done in a desktop OS, and what you or I can do in windows.
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Postby jargon » Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:55 am

Curious, is it just me or do other people out there dislike the fact that Linux has become so popular. I realize now that the reason I began using it in '98 was because I was interested in an alternative OS but also because it was unique and something not everyone could make use of.

Im not saying that it sucks that Linux has more hardware support, applications, but that now more and more regular users , many who are like Windows users, (people that just want stuff to work and are not interested in figuring out how it works), have jumped onto the Linux or I should say GNU/Linux bandwagon.

Maybe 'dislike' is too strong , but I definitely dont want Linux to be as popular as Windows, I fear it will loose what it means to me. But obviously, that seems impossible.

Any comments, or thoughts or am i being plain silly?

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Postby Tauseef » Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:11 am

Let me clear one thing here. The statement is not mine. I am hooked onto linux.

The statement comes from the biggest distributor of Linux out there. RedHat

that is what troubles me :?
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linux on a desktop

Postby lambda » Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:18 pm

this is about a year old, but can you honestly say the situation's any better? http://www.jwz.org/doc/linuxvideo.html.
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Postby fawad » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:06 pm

lambda,
A resounding yes. I have a dual boot Win2k/Redhat 9 machine at home. I find the multimedia performance (for MP3 in XMMS; DIVX, DVD, Windows Media in mplayer) infinitely better on Linux. Installation is pretty darn easy too.

apt-get install mplayer.

Download the codecs pack from the mplayer website and extract in /usr/lib/win32.

jargon,
You're being silly :). In all seriousness though, I'd rather the platform that I love flourish than die in obscurity. The wannabees come with the popularity of the platform. There's nothing better I'd like than Linux to be as popular as Microsoft, because no matter what, there's no chance in heck the code will go closed source. So if you like tweaking, you can just choose to avoid Redhat Linux 21.2 and build your own. The beauty of Linux is that everybody is free to do what they feel like with the OS.
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Postby lambda » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:43 pm

fawad wrote:lambda,
A resounding yes. I have a dual boot Win2k/Redhat 9 machine at home. I find the multimedia performance (for MP3 in XMMS; DIVX, DVD, Windows Media in mplayer) infinitely better on Linux. Installation is pretty darn easy too.

apt-get install mplayer.


i think you missed the point. is a general desktop user going to use apt-tools on redhat? how is a general desktop user going to deal with the mp3 plugin issue in xmms?

it's not a question of being able to do what you want, it's whether the average desktop user can be placed in front of a new linux install and do those things as well as s?he can do them on windows (or a mac).
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Postby outstream » Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:06 pm

AoA

I havent tried any distroz of Linux, other than Red Hat. Well its the case of availability, here in Pakistan Red Hat is the one most freely available. Anyways comming back to topic, i think it will still take some years if ordinary home users want to use Linux at their home pc`s. I mean lets think it like what does home user needs? most of times its kid playing games, or men and women accessing internet. they just love to double click on my computer, then double click on to C:\ and then choose their best program to run it. In Installation they just love to double click any setup.exe , do few more mouse clicks and program is installed.

whereas, when all these things come to Linux, it all just changes. You are never sure that u can log on to internet with having all those freely available winmodems. I mean people wuld surely buy a 600rs new modem and log on to internet using windows rather than buying an expensive external modem to get connected from Linux platform. the users who even try to connect using their winmodems, face a real hard time on making it work. I myself installed my internal winmodem in Linux after 25 days of discussion/research. Secondly the directory structure of Linux is totally different. when a windows user tries it, he finds /root and /etc instead of C:\ and C:\windows. I mean if having trouble with display, A home user, may be who is a student of arts or a house wife, or some kid studying in class 8th has no interest to go on exploring /etc/x11/xf86.conf to make his or her display work fine

Third, most of the softwares freely available to do anything are built for windows platform, u can just go out, buy a 30rs cd, having more than 50 softwares, built for windows. in case of Linux there are just limited resources. I am just a baby in this Linux field, started it like 2 months back aur ab tuk I have come to know only 2 sites for Linux softwares, one is www.sourceforge.net and www.freshmeat.net . I think there are lots of things that a home user wants to be in his pc, which are not available in Linux, or if available, its totally different way to install what he wants to install which can be a big mess some times.


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Postby Faraz.Fazil » Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:29 pm

Well i would put it like:

Everything can be done in linux, that can normally be done in windows.You just need to know how to do it.If you donot know how to do it, you need to learn how to do it.

Now the approach of the majority of the pakistani computer users is simply being too lazy.They are not willing to learn anything or spend a little time, as explained by outstream.

Life is not free.
You need to make efforts and do hard work.

As i said before, i do everything in linux that you or i can do in windows.

I watch all sorts of movies (VCD's, dvd's, divx, wmv,avi etc) using mplayer , I play mp3's using xmms also with dsp effect, i use the internet, browse the web, even have a download manager to download the files, Do instant messaging, I watch televion on linux using my tv tuner with XawTv, and the list goes on and on ,I do everything in linux that you or i can do in windows.

NOw as for that 30 ruppes point by outstream, you see this would not have been the case , had piracy not been so common.

I wish those authorities really clampdown piracy here in pakistan.And pirated versions of windows get stopped being used here...then everyone's pc would go down!!!>....But MINE WONT!!
That will be when people will realize the enormous potential and need of linux...the truly free OS!
Last edited by Faraz.Fazil on Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tauseef » Thu Nov 06, 2003 5:56 am

Now the approach of the majority of the pakistani computer users is simple foolish and pathetic.They are not willing to learn anything or spend a little time, as explained by outstream.


I find your above statement going over the edge. You claim pakistani computer users to be foolish and pathetic !.
Sorry, that is not the case.

the statement comes from your favourite distro, RedHat, not from any PAKI-FOOL.
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Postby Faraz.Fazil » Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:02 am

Well, im sorry if i offended anyone.

Maybe foolish and pathetic were too severe,so i have edited it.I would then describe their behaviour as being lazy.

Why are you always intrested in starting a war of words tauseef? :wink:
Instead, I would advise you to spend more time helping people.

The fact that the statement comes from redhat, it has got nothing to do with my comment on the general approach adopted by the majority of the computer users.

*Posts edited.

Tauseef wrote:
Now the approach of the majority of the pakistani computer users is simple foolish and pathetic.They are not willing to learn anything or spend a little time, as explained by outstream.


I find your above statement going over the edge. You claim pakistani computer users to be foolish and pathetic !.
Sorry, that is not the case.

the statement comes from your favourite distro, RedHat, not from any PAKI-FOOL.
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Postby zaeemarshad » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:55 pm

Did you read that on http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html
Quote:

"We think that the enterprise desktop market place is much more strategic and has buyers whose needs we can exceed."
Matthew Szulik, chief executive of Linux vendor Red Hat

Linux was developed by hardcode programmers for the hardcode programmer initially. Right now there are a very small number of ppl who are paid for developing GUI for linux and a pleasant GUI experience. If i am a programmer and i want to show my talent by coding an app free for linux, it would be something that makes me sound leet in the linux community. i would try to mess with some server stuff, pick out a few bugs in my fav server, try to write a few patches or daringly a 2.7.8-ZA kernel on a million linux systems will satisfy my inner programmer. The point is the programmer who is doing it for free is never interested in the end user. I bet you put in a few million bucks and keep investing in 20 handy developers for linux and in a year they will present you with one of the finest GUIs in the to date. (my confidence in linux developers is high). windows is pleasure for the end user but once you try to do more than the usual stuff you are out of luck. anyway for the end user mandrake does a really good job. knoppix is good if you dont wanna install linux. The easiest of the install is the no-install.(i love the live-cd stuff). believe me you put these words that linux is to die in favour of windows on another forum or usenet and they will flame you for this. A sin thats unforgivable. No mercy :D . hope you dont mind that.

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Postby Tauseef » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:03 pm

Maybe foolish and pathetic were too severe,so i have edited it.I would then describe their behaviour as being lazy.


Faraz I appreciate you recognising the words being wrongly placed here.
People in Pakistan are not foolish or lazy. They are more efficient and hard working than I have seen in many countries. Pakistanis are the only people in the world who can master a computer language simply by using compiler and Online help. Not a lot of countires can make that claim (Except China and Russia)

They simply don't have access to high-speed-internet. Downloading a 480MB Ximian on 28.8KB or 56KB modem is simply too painfull and downloading a 3/4-CD distribution is almost next to impossible. No they are not lazy, at all. They are just not as much blessed as you are with a cable modem or ISDN connection.



Why are you always intrested in starting a war of words tauseef?


woah :roll: I see more criticism coming onto my words than on anyone else. No I am not starting any kind of dispute

Warm regards


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Postby Faraz.Fazil » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:55 pm

Well tauseef, i do agree that there are many reasons at the moment that may discourage an average pakistani computer user from using linux to its full potential or to not use linux at all!.The simplest example being the lack of high speed connections.The majority of the users are still on 3 k /sec dialup connections...so your point is valid that they ofcourse cannot download large linux stuff esp huge files like those 2-3 cds distros or even things like 3rd party softwares like new versions of openoffice or abiword for linux etc etc

But they can atleast give installing linux distros that are available in the market a try and can atleast make an effort to learn something.

I think my point is being mis-taken here.

What i meant to say was: On one hand there are some pakistani computer users who do make a lot of effort to learn new things and also make efforts to learn linux..we have many examples on our own forum

But on the other hand, the majority of the computer users in pakistan are total newbies...computer usage at the home level has increased many a fold in the last 2 to 3 years only...so most of the users are total newbies who ofcourse will have a hard time with linux unless they have the skills and dedication to learn linux.

With the advent of these linux live cd's like those slackware-live and knoppix, i hope users at least give them a try and start to learn atleast something.But even live-cd's do require a little bit of tweaking and troubleshooting in some cases.For instance when running slackware-live for the first time, it didnt detect my mouse.I had to personally edit the XF86Config file on the ramdisk and include the ZAXISMAPPING line to make it work.If it would have been a newbie, he ofcourse would have had a hell of a time.

So my point is that the majority of Pakistani computer Users lack the desire ,or ,in some cases, the skills to learn linux for one reason or the other, or simply due to shortage of resources or time.There can be a hundred thousand other reasons.
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Postby jargon » Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:14 pm

Is the online services in Pakistan really that bad that it is next to Impossible to obtain iso's for linux distros whether it be by buying in stores or downloading off the web?

Im ignorant about the situation please inform me - perhaps i can help
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