Windows is better than Linux for home users ????

General discussion about Linux, Linux distribution, using Linux etc.

Postby zaeemarshad » Fri Nov 07, 2003 12:01 am

computer users in pakistan are lazy. sorry to say that but they are. when they are motivated they are the hardest workers but sadly this isnt the case very often. they lack motivation. for example, in a local college in multan a linux/unix community was formed which didnt last more than 6 months just because it wasted 6 months on teaching everyone to install linux. the members expected that the secretary will teach em everything. i had a real bad experience with them. Spoonfeeding has destroyed our capability to work hard on our own. 9 out of 10 ppl i meet say we cant do anything on our own unless there is someone to teach us. confidence in one's abilities is simply extinct yet when these pakistanis go out and are given the proper confidence they pull out marvelous jobs. ppl in pakistan are working but not to the extent we see in india or other countries. ppl often say to me what good is an OS that cant detect my modem. its an open debate and we simply cant blame anybody but ourselves.

As regards the internet scenario in pakistan, it used to be worse a few years back but has improved a lot. downloading iso images is still a far thought for more than 90% of the users. it takes about an hour to download 10mb file on any isp in multan. the only means of connectivity available are dialup on 56k, DCN, isdn and satellite. satellite and isdn ar edamn expensive and are out of option. currently there is no single connection bought by a home user of isdn or satellite. dialup is the main method. DCN is fast gaining up. i believe situation is lot better in isb,karachi and lahore.

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Postby outstream » Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:45 am

AoA

Thats right, people here in pakistan just love to have spoon feeding, which is very unfortunate. Even the guys studying computer sciences, just want to have some field as their major field in which there is lot of money and stuff. I mean lets think of a guy who is a natural web designer, who has natural apt for graphics, something unusual than a normal computer student, and now when he comes to know that there is more money and more demand of VC++ programmers, he just leaves his adobe photoshop and installs visual studio and start trying his luck on programming. this is what i actually saw. Also in there 'every street' computer centers, the poeple that come to do short courses, they demand the course to be taught which is "in" in professional market.

As far as DSN is concerned, which mr Zaeemarshad mentioned in his post, i believe he meant Desi Cable Net by that?. I dont know about Karachi and Lahore, but in Islamabad, its just worst. what desi cable net walay are doing here is, get a 512kb connection and distribute it among whole sector as their local lan. they claim to give atleast 26kb per user. in begining its ok, but as number of users start to grow it all ends up having 1k or 2k. i havent tried it myself, but i have this friend living in Rawalpindi , he bought it and he couldnt even do voice chat on that because of damn slow speed. until they do it properly, i believe dial-up is much better as far as speed issues are concerned.
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Postby Tauseef » Fri Nov 07, 2003 9:13 am

Code: Select all

Thats right, people here in pakistan just love to have spoon feeding, which is very unfortunate.


Outstream, tell me something that is not true for the rest of the world.

Developers and Geeks are few and far between any where in the world. People want to go to stores and buy software and install it on their computers.

Otherwise in US and Euorope, more people would be using Linux than Windows. They have high speed internet and all the resources. Well, we can not expect every PC user to be a programing guru. An average home PC user (Anywhere in the world) needs simplified things, he does not want to get involved into kernel compilations and huge downloads etc.

As for developers in Pakistan, A considerable number of those who can afford, are already using or evaluating Linux.

We still lack a lot of things in Linux that we enjoy in Windows. We still don't have substitute for Macromedia products in Linux. VS.Net (Good or Bad) still is lot easier to program than KDevelop or hard coding using text editor and the list goes on.

True the gap is closing in very fast, but do we get those additional software for Linux in the market ????



warm regards


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Postby Tauseef » Fri Nov 07, 2003 9:29 am

Well Faraz,

All I can say is that you have to come down to a home user level and try to understand their short comings. Not all users can be linux Gurus like you are. They want to learn and use applications and play games instead of spending time on learning OS and on top of that they just dont want to spend weeks and weeks on downloading a distribution just to find next day that there is yet another update for that, very next day that is essential for using the one they have just downloaded.

I appreciate your experience level on Linux, but not every PC-user can be a guru. Unfortunately Linux wants us to dig deep into system settings stored into complex text files (for average user). Most of these settings are point and click in Windows.

So while Linux is better than Windows (I have no doubt about it for prior to Win2k3), it is more dificult and needs lot more time to mature.

projects like Lindows and Lycoris need to be evolved further to make Linux a reality for home/casual users.

Whereas RHE and Fedora are more business oriented and RHE is best Linux Server out there. I like SUSE and Mandrake as they offer something for everyone right out of box.

I am planing to get my hands on SUSE as soon as it comes out with Novel XIMIAN and it might replace RHE on my Server.
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Postby zaeemarshad » Sat Nov 08, 2003 6:46 pm

SuSe is a better server class distro then RedHat. Redhat got the share because of IBM and HP putting it on their servers. SuSe with Novell will give Redhat a tough time. talking about that average user wants to play games, use net and listen to music i think linux is quite mature for that. it's been 2 years since my brother's friend who happens to be in fsc now is using RHL 8.0 now and is quite satisfied with it. he says openoffice is fine for word and excel like tasks. galeon according to him is the best browser he has ever seen. he appreciates the speed of net he gets.

its just how you take linux. you think it is tough its going to be tougher than you think. you take it nice and easy and man its an apple pie. i found it an apple pie :lol: . I believe linux distros like Redhat, mandrake and lycoris are well enuff mature for the end user. they just have to get accustomed to the new terminologies. ask the users if they didnt learn about control panel and add remove wizard and partitions. why not learn a few other things regarding linux?

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Postby jargon » Sat Nov 08, 2003 9:59 pm

Yes, but face the facts Windows is better for home users still because it is just a lot easier, you can't deny it, in general its made to be a lot simpler, and if you want something even easier to use then you can try Mac OSX which i think is even easier to use,

You have to understand that most people in the world that use computers dont care really about computers. they just want to get some work done. I find Linux easy , but thats because i have used it and i have a reason to learn how to use it.

Windows has become the norm and has been the norm for a while, so its just natural that people find it easier because everyone uses it. so they watch their friends use it and they pick it up. How many Linux users as friends do "normal" non-computer people really have? Probably nil.

My brother uses computers all the time and he has on first account lived with my before I moved off to college watching me use Linux, talking about it all the time. I've even showed it to him and asked him if he wanted me to install it for him because its really easy. But no, he never took up Linux because really there is no need. To him there is no point in using Linux, he's not a computer expert he just wants to get work done.

The effort to get Linux on the desktop is not to say whether Linux is easy or not, its to break the cycle , the norm, and get everyone talking about it, using it , and then eventually Linux will be a "Desktop OS" or something useful for home users.

P.S. when they say home users they are talking about average users, like grandma and grandpa.
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Postby lambda » Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:59 pm

Faraz.Fazil wrote:With the advent of these linux live cd's like those slackware-live and knoppix, i hope users at least give them a try and start to learn atleast something.But even live-cd's do require a little bit of tweaking and troubleshooting in some cases.For instance when running slackware-live for the first time, it didnt detect my mouse.I had to personally edit the XF86Config file on the ramdisk and include the ZAXISMAPPING line to make it work.If it would have been a newbie, he ofcourse would have had a hell of a time.

So my point is that the majority of Pakistani computer Users lack the desire ,or ,in some cases, the skills to learn linux for one reason or the other, or simply due to shortage of resources or time.There can be a hundred thousand other reasons.


tell me which option you'd prefer: editing obscure files to get the simplest devices on your computer working, or having it work out of the box. because, if it's the former, you don't understand what a desktop is supposed to provide users. if it's the latter, linux isn't there yet.

it has nothing to do with how lazy users are. lazy users do just fine on windows and macs. power users do pretty well on them, too.
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Postby outstream » Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:57 pm

AoA


Tauseef Wrote
We still lack a lot of things in Linux that we enjoy in Windows. We still don't have substitute for Macromedia products in Linux. VS.Net (Good or Bad) still is lot easier to program than KDevelop or hard coding using text editor and the list goes on.

True the gap is closing in very fast, but do we get those additional software for Linux in the market ????


yes sir thats the point, the software for Linux. well i was browsing through cnn.com the other day and i came across the cool news that china is going to invest into sofware market for Linux. those softwares will be freeware and modifiable (according to them). you may read the whole news at


http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/11 ... index.html


Good Day
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Postby Faraz.Fazil » Sun Nov 09, 2003 5:14 pm

True...

Lazy users donot have a good time with linux.
B.T.W it aint a good thing being lazy...or is it?

Also, you quoted two different, dissimilar paragraphs from my post together.

Also, Linux has matured alot as a desktop OS over the years...but i do agree that it needs to mature a bit more.

lambda wrote:
Faraz.Fazil wrote:With the advent of these linux live cd's like those slackware-live and knoppix, i hope users at least give them a try and start to learn atleast something.But even live-cd's do require a little bit of tweaking and troubleshooting in some cases.For instance when running slackware-live for the first time, it didnt detect my mouse.I had to personally edit the XF86Config file on the ramdisk and include the ZAXISMAPPING line to make it work.If it would have been a newbie, he ofcourse would have had a hell of a time.

So my point is that the majority of Pakistani computer Users lack the desire ,or ,in some cases, the skills to learn linux for one reason or the other, or simply due to shortage of resources or time.There can be a hundred thousand other reasons.


tell me which option you'd prefer: editing obscure files to get the simplest devices on your computer working, or having it work out of the box. because, if it's the former, you don't understand what a desktop is supposed to provide users. if it's the latter, linux isn't there yet.

it has nothing to do with how lazy users are. lazy users do just fine on windows and macs. power users do pretty well on them, too.
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