Microsoft .Net

General discussion about Linux, Linux distribution, using Linux etc.

Postby Faraz.Fazil » Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:00 pm

LOL!!!!

So You mean to say The OFficials at WineHQ.com , the official people who developed wine are wrong when they say:

"Wine => Wine Is Not An Emulator"

and that you are correct.....

Thats not the case.

Tauseef wrote:
Wine , in plain english, lets you run windows applications in linux.


So in other words wine emulates Windows on top of Linux. Just like LXRun is an emulator of Linux runing on top of Solaris.

Excuse me, but my understanding is that an emulator translates one processor instruction set to another processor in real time. Just like PlaySation or Nintendo64 Emulators.

Similarly Wine translates Windows binary files into Linux instruction sets, so it is an emulator.

And yes. Wine is used by many programs to port their applications to Linux aswell. Kindly explore the way Borland Kylix and Corel WordPerfect have been ported to Linux from their Windows code base. Both rely quite heavily on Wine libraries for their respective compilation process.


When you write QT/GTK applications you do not rely on Wine Libraries but you write pure native Linux applications.



The other day, i was surprised to see a leading Pakistani Internet Magazine, describe wine as Windows Emulator....this ofcourse, is Plain Wrong


Well, my friend read the definition of an emulator first.
Linux for Life!
Faraz.Fazil
Major General
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2002 5:31 pm
WLM: faraz7476@hotmail.com
Location: Karachi/Pakistan/Earth/Universe

Postby Tauseef » Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:42 pm

LOL!!!!

So You mean to say The OFficials at WineHQ.com , the official people who developed wine are wrong when they say:

"Wine => Wine Is Not An Emulator"

and that you are correct.....

Thats not the case.


Ok. Officials at WineHQ say that and we accept that point blank. Whether they admit it or not, Wine is an emulator by any definition and it is emulating the Windows functionality on Linux in such a way that you can run Windows binaries on top of Linux.

Dont repeat the same old words "Wine is just Win32 API on top of Linux". Because in that case it will not allow you to run Win32 binaries on top of Linux, but simply allow you to use Win32 functions in Linux applications. (Wine in reality is both an emulator and a set of Win32 API layer for Linux). It runs Win32 binaries and it allows you to use Win32 functions in your applications (If you compile wil Win32 libraries).

Example of Wine used as Open Source Win32 API is Kylix and Word Perfect for Linux, both compiled with Wine libraries.

Example of Wine as emulator is running MineSweep.exe on Linux through Wine.
Tauseef
Naik
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 3:21 pm
Yahoo Messenger: tauseefshazad@yahoo.com
Location: Rawalpindi

Postby Faraz.Fazil » Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:18 pm

Hold on a second.

There has been alot of debate on whether wine is an emulator or not.
Some people say : It is, while some say it aint an emulator.

I think you are a beleiver in a common myth tauseef.

There is no reason why the folks at winehq.com would lie about wine being an emulator or not..and hence we ought to accept their statement that wine is not an emulator.

They have been on the scene since the nineties since a long time, so there is no point in saying that they give wrong statements.

Wine is free.had it been not free, then we could have said that they may be giving wrong statements to market their product...but since wine is free, there is no reason why winehq.com people would lie.

Tauseef, i doubt you have explored wine to the "innermost core" level.Your assumptions may or may not be valid.Hence the best way is to accept what the software maker himself says, and not to jeopardize, a software maker's statements unneccessarily.
Linux for Life!
Faraz.Fazil
Major General
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2002 5:31 pm
WLM: faraz7476@hotmail.com
Location: Karachi/Pakistan/Earth/Universe

Postby zaeemarshad » Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:47 am

wine is definitely not an emulator because i have made it successfuly run on my win98 dll files and run many software. had it been an emulator, it must have used its own translation mechanism along with an emulation of each dll that windows uses. instead it uses the dll and uses the api provided in them and executing it in linux providing a much windows like result. the very behaviour of the software sets it apart from the emulator line of softwares. I do believe in what wine ppl say coz they r givng me their product for free and its really nice. another reason to believe. isnt it?

Regards
Zaeem
zaeemarshad
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 12:35 pm
Website: http://zaeem.no-ip.org
WLM: zarshadvirk@hotmail.com
Yahoo Messenger: negativecreep61@yahoo.com
AOL: zarshadvirk
Location: Islamabad

Postby Tauseef » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:21 am

zaeemarshad wrote

wine is definitely not an emulator because i have made it successfuly run on my win98 dll files and run many software. had it been an emulator, it must have used its own translation mechanism along with an emulation of each dll that windows uses. instead it uses the dll and uses the api provided in them and executing it in linux providing a much windows like result. the very behaviour of the software sets it apart from the emulator line of softwares. I do believe in what wine ppl say coz they r givng me their product for free and its really nice. another reason to believe. isnt it?


The very nature of Wine that allows you to run Windows exe and DLL files on Linux puts it into emulator catagory. So you are contradicting yourself.

Let me clear one thing here. I hve nothing against Emulators. Only extra-ordinary developers can create emulators. So I don't under-estimate the devolopers at WineHQ. It is just that Wine is an emulator.

Kindly prove me wrong with logic and not by the statement made by WineHQ. I'll accept with open heart if I am wrong.
Tauseef
Naik
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 3:21 pm
Yahoo Messenger: tauseefshazad@yahoo.com
Location: Rawalpindi

Postby zaeemarshad » Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:59 pm

Quoting from the wine faq:
"The drawback of all emulators is that you need a version of Windows in order to run Windows, and that they all have an impact on performance."

now wine definitely doesnt need an installed version of windows although original copies of win dll do help in running some really hard to run programs. vmware and the likes are emulators but wine is definitely not. i recommend that u go through the wine faq. may be u will understand our point then.

Also take a look at this from wine faq:

What is Wine and what is it supposed to do?

Wine is a program which allows the operation of DOS and MS Windows programs (Windows 3.x and Win32 executables) on UNIX operating systems such as Linux. It consists of a program loader, which loads and executes a Windows binary, and a set of libraries that implements Windows API calls using their UNIX or X11 equivalents. The libraries may also be used for porting Win32 code into native UNIX executables, often without many changes in the source.

The wine faq is at http://www.winehq.org/site/docs/wine-faq/index#WHAT-IS-WINE-AND-WHAT-IS-IT-SUPPOSED-TO

Regards
Zaeem Arshad
zaeemarshad
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 12:35 pm
Website: http://zaeem.no-ip.org
WLM: zarshadvirk@hotmail.com
Yahoo Messenger: negativecreep61@yahoo.com
AOL: zarshadvirk
Location: Islamabad

Postby zaeemarshad » Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:04 pm

take a look at this description from the wine project page from sourceforge:

"Wine Is Not an Emulator. It is an alternative implementation of the Windows 3.x and Win32 APIs. Wine provides both a development toolkit (Winelib) for porting legacy Windows sources to Unix and a program loader, allowing unmodified Windows 3.1/95/NT binaries to run under Intel Unixes. Wine does not require Microsoft Windows, as it is a completely alternative implementation consisting of 100% Microsoft-Free code, but it can optionally use native system DLLs if they are available. "

http://freshmeat.net/projects/wine/?topic_id=809%2C74

And i think the term WINE stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator rather than thinking it as WINdows Emulator.

From winehq's about page : "Wine is an implementation of the Windows Win32 and Win16 APIs on top of X and Unix". It aims to replace Windows 100%, so you can run software written for Windows, without having Windows installed.


Tauseef r u satisfied or do u have some logic to prove this wrong.

Regards
Zaeem
zaeemarshad
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 12:35 pm
Website: http://zaeem.no-ip.org
WLM: zarshadvirk@hotmail.com
Yahoo Messenger: negativecreep61@yahoo.com
AOL: zarshadvirk
Location: Islamabad

Postby zaeemarshad » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:32 am

EDITED BY FARAZ.FAZIL

FLAME MESSAGES REMOVED.
zaeemarshad
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 12:35 pm
Website: http://zaeem.no-ip.org
WLM: zarshadvirk@hotmail.com
Yahoo Messenger: negativecreep61@yahoo.com
AOL: zarshadvirk
Location: Islamabad

Postby Tauseef » Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:07 pm

EDITED BY FARAZ.FAZIL

FLAME MESSAGES REMOVED.
Tauseef
Naik
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 3:21 pm
Yahoo Messenger: tauseefshazad@yahoo.com
Location: Rawalpindi

Re:

Postby LinuxFreaK » Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:11 am

Dear Tauseef,

Sir, I agree with you that Wine Is Not a (CPU) Emulator...Wine is an reimplementation of the windows API...www.winehq.org explains all about it (first page says wine isnt an emulator)....that's what it name means btw wine is a win32 api implementation for *nix platforms, provides binary compatibility.
....if you would read:.... http://www.winehq.com/site/docs/wine-fa ... UPPOSED-TO section 2.2 and for more information you guys need to check out
WineHQ FAQ's. dosemu is an emulator that they may have been confused with...

Best Regards.
Farrukh Ahmed
LinuxFreaK
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5132
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 10:24 am
ICQ: 82075802
Website: http://www.linuxpakistan.net/wiki/index.php?pagename=LinuxFreak
WLM: f4fahmed@hotmail.com
Yahoo Messenger: f4fahmed@yahoo.com
AOL: linuxpakistan@aol.com
Location: Karachi

Postby Faraz.Fazil » Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:50 am

*Posts edited.Flame messages removed.

Things seem to be going out of hand.
tauseef, and zaeemarshad, you guyz posted some flaming and offensive messages.

This thread is now closed and flame posts edited.

I was thinking of closing this thread a lot before, as i knew things may go out of hand.But i thought maybe people would behave.

Expressing one's personal opinion is a god given right.BUt we all need to behave when arguing...and you should not flame anyone especially so severly
Linux for Life!
Faraz.Fazil
Major General
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2002 5:31 pm
WLM: faraz7476@hotmail.com
Location: Karachi/Pakistan/Earth/Universe


Return to “%s” General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron