Martial Law in LP Forums! (RE: idX post)

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Martial Law in LP Forums! (RE: idX post)

Postby s7r1k3r » Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:45 am

Assalam-O-Alaekum!

Now I really need to know who deleted the post from idX on security?

By the way, I am still wondering who exactly is the chief excutive in this case?

I didn't find any thing objectionable in that post and feel very disappointed to know the policy of the forum.


[Yes this IS an ANGRY post] because I just think that such acts serve no good purpose.
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Postby jargon » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:11 am

Not to offend anyone, but what I dont get is that if you have agreed not to post any "Junk" material then why are there people posting about HOT Babes (no offense Farhan Bhai), and what the latest kernel release is....Stuff like that should be on the News section.

Sorry, s7r1k3r i dont know who deleted that post.

The ironic thing is that this post is also considerd Junk.
I just dont understand why if there are going to be rules and all this talk about moderation then why do people still post useless material.
Frankly, there should be no talk of moderation this moderation that - truth of the matter is that it will continue to happen regardless.
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Postby linuxgeek » Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:04 am

Assalam O Alaikum,


AFAIK , LinuxPakistan Forum is for discussing linux related issues and solutions to them and its for helping other pakistanis out instead of talking about cracking / hacking groups and the incompetency of system admins of isps. Kindly don't post messages like this again in the forum.

Regards

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Postby Faraz.Fazil » Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:26 pm

Hi folks,

First of all, cool down and have a cup of cofee.

I didnot delete the post, nor did i see it. But Let me make it clear here.
Excuse me...No martial law is being implemented at the forum.

We are not being harsh, nor doing anything wrong.We donot delete any posts unless they contain useless stuff like "Hi", "hello", "change your nick" " or other unwanted messages that do nothing but flood the forum.If we donot do this, things can easily get out of control....getting the forum flooded is not difficult.

What i think is you guyz donot understand what moderation is....from what people have been posting in the past, it seems as though they think the forum needs no moderation.This is wrong.Moderation is about making sure the forum runs smoothly.We have to make sure the forum keeps on running smoothly.We try our best to make sure no bad decision is taken.We all are humans and if we make a mistake, you should cooperate with us and let us know about it so that we can remedy it.

As for the moment, i think the moderation is quite good.

I do agree with linuxgeek, that the forum is solely for linux.It is not a desi chat forum nor for cracking or hacking/piracy discussion.

Any suggestions from our valued members on improving the moderation or the forum in general are welcome.

AS for that kernel thread, jargon, i posted that more as a discussion topic once the 2.6 beta came out.I just edited the main thread and kept on updating it.I will post that in the news section now.

Now everyone cool down :wink:
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Postby outstream » Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:11 pm

AoA

Faraz.Fazil Wrote
We donot delete any posts unless they contain useless stuff like "Hi", "hello", "change your nick" " or other unwanted messages that do nothing but flood the forum


and i think besides that we can also afford to delete some old news posts, which r not needed that much. for example there are news posts like

'UserLinux a new proposed ditribution as an answer to RedHat'
'IBM To Launch Comprehensive Linux Desktop Support'
'Linux 2.6 Coming In December' (by me in Linux-->General )

and posts like these ,that get old by the time.we can manage to delete them easily and it wont harm any one.

i mean as the time passes, they r no more news. for example after december the post "Linux 2.6 Coming In December" will be useless. it will be no more a news. so we can easily afford to delete it.
Testing?What's that? If it compiles, its good, if it boots up it is perfect.
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Postby zaeemarshad » Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:13 pm

very right faraz as moderation is quite well in the LP forum. i totally agree with linuxgeek. one thing jargon is right about is that stuff like latest kernel release should be on the news section. once the beta is released we shall discuss its pros and cons in a separate thread. no offense intended but does that post from Idx matters that much. it was junk in my opinion.

Regards
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Can we have democracy!

Postby s7r1k3r » Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:14 am

Assalam-O-Alaekum!

We still don't know who deleted the posts. The ironic thing is that the post was deleted within an hour or so after it was posted. If it isn't a martial law, why wasn't this post allowed to be judged by our members? Keeping it on the forum for a couple of days and deleting it then (if found objectionable) would have been more democratic.

Now, no body is taking the responsibility for it.

My point is, we are all supposed to be equal. No one should delete my post if he thinks its worthless. Let the community decide. The mods should also be answerable to someone.

I guess that if's idea of creating another forum title called "trash can" was a good so that it can be viewed by others exactly which posts are being trashed. But I guess, as it was not from any mod thats why it didn't get any acceptence.

Frankly, I have noticed that the rules apply to only a few and I am getting sick of it.

A linux forum should be kind of a home for linux people. And IMHO linux people like to be free by nature. Un-necessary big-brotherly acts seem to really destroy the feel of the forum.

And for the idX post. idX is a member of ndsa (a website defacement group), right. The post he posted did put quite a lot of blame on comsats admins but he proved it that they deserved the blame. As I posted in reply to that thread (in quite some detail) that the information he posted didnot pose any real threat to comsats. It was just the contents of /etc/passwd file and passwords were shadowed. As a matter of fact, to an average user, this just gave out the name of a few accounts. If a veteran hacker wanted to find those, it would have been no trouble. All in all, this post had started a good security related discussion. We could have made our point by replying to that post instead of deleting it.

I call it escaping. If you think something is wrong, prove it.

Also, one more thing, hacking should not be used as a negative word. I guess many great linux people will be considered criminals if hacking was to be considered a crime. Those who still insist on calling it so should better do some reading on the stuff before talking about it.

Now for the last point, the forum flooding. Almost each week I see posts telling people not to flood the forum because of the limited disk space. People we are talking about limited disk space. So number of post is not as critical as size of posts. 10 posts of 10 words each still don't matter as much as a 10K post. So what is the use of posting the same stuff that is easily available on the Internet? Instead of copy-pasting it, I recommend just providing the link for it. This IMO will really save space. Still, I think of this space issue as a lame excuse. Considering the popularity of the forum, I don't think that getting more space would be an issue.

Regards.
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Re: Can we have democracy!

Postby Faraz.Fazil » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:05 pm

What you are trying to say is that all the forum members should act as moderators...isnt it what you are trying to say.?

Excuse me mate, but no forum on this planet has all the members as mods.Only a select members are made mods...and you have to have trust in them.If you think they did something wrong by mistake, you should communicate with them...but in a polite tone.No need to be angry!
And one more thing, senior members deserve respect.And no sensible forum would follow a policy of "let the trash lie on your doorstep for a week, so that all your guests can call it trash...them pick it up"

s7r1k3r wrote:Assalam-O-Alaekum!

We still don't know who deleted the posts. The ironic thing is that the post was deleted within an hour or so after it was posted. If it isn't a martial law, why wasn't this post allowed to be judged by our members? Keeping it on the forum for a couple of days and deleting it then (if found objectionable) would have been more democratic.


I will talk with fawad bhai through pm about this.

I guess that if's idea of creating another forum title called "trash can" was a good so that it can be viewed by others exactly which posts are being trashed. But I guess, as it was not from any mod thats why it didn't get any acceptence.


Thats how you perceive it...but frankly thats not the case.

Frankly, I have noticed that the rules apply to only a few and I am getting sick of it.


Atleast you agreed that passwd contents were posted.
I have not seen that post so cant comment more...but from what i make of it hearing the views of those who saw it, i think it would have been better if the post was more in an acceptable manner, without a single private information of comsats.You are violating law by posting private accounts information...

And for the idX post. idX is a member of ndsa (a website defacement group), right. The post he posted did put quite a lot of blame on comsats admins but he proved it that they deserved the blame. As I posted in reply to that thread (in quite some detail) that the information he posted didnot pose any real threat to comsats. It was just the contents of /etc/passwd file and passwords were shadowed. As a matter of fact, to an average user, this just gave out the name of a few accounts. If a veteran hacker wanted to find those, it would have been no trouble. All in all, this post had started a good security related discussion. We could have made our point by replying to that post instead of deleting it.

I call it escaping. If you think something is wrong, prove it.

Also, one more thing, hacking should not be used as a negative word. I guess many great linux people will be considered criminals if hacking was to be considered a crime. Those who still insist on calling it so should better do some reading on the stuff before talking about it.


Atleast, i donot copy paste stuff from the web in my posts.
All my posts are original and created solely by me, unless specifically mentioned.

I always recommend people to create originals rather than lifting material from the web and using their name.If they copy material, they should mention it clearly.


Now for the last point, the forum flooding. Almost each week I see posts telling people not to flood the forum because of the limited disk space. People we are talking about limited disk space. So number of post is not as critical as size of posts. 10 posts of 10 words each still don't matter as much as a 10K post. So what is the use of posting the same stuff that is easily available on the Internet? Instead of copy-pasting it, I recommend just providing the link for it. This IMO will really save space. Still, I think of this space issue as a lame excuse. Considering the popularity of the forum, I don't think that getting more space would be an issue.

Regards.
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Postby fawad » Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:59 pm

AOA guys,
Sorry if this problem is being handled in an incorrect manner. Trust me when I say this: we are trying to handle the forum in as fair a manner as possible.

I did read the thread, but I was really not sure whether the topic was off-topic or not. Upon's s7r1k3r's request a new forum (devnull) has been created. Threads that are about to be thrown out will be moved there. Only moderators can move posts to that forum, but non-moderators can read it (comments may be enabled if wanted).

I agree with Faraz.Fazil that there aren't a lot of sites that are 100% democracy. I've reiterated over the years that if anyone thinks they can do a better job, I'd be glad to hand over control to them. We are currently operating as a meritocracy (as most OSS projects do): the more you contribute, the more say you have in the way things work around here.

All that said, I'll discuss this issue with the rest of the moderators and inform you guys of the progress.
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Thanks!

Postby s7r1k3r » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:31 am

Thanks for the new head!
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Postby if » Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:04 pm

Aslam-o-Aliakum,

thx... but i think... there is must more preactically needed to be done...
if u find anything which shows my lack of knowledge,
please guide me... thx
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Can we have democracy!

Postby mahin_pk » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:04 pm

s7r1k3r said:
Now, no body is taking the responsibility for it.

I have not seen the original post my self so I can not comment on its contents, however the mod who removed has informed me of his action and I trust his discreation. No offence meant to any one it is just a matter of opinion, it so happens that he is quite senior among the mods. No need to name names :) and No it was not Fawad, in case any one was thinking:).

With changes made by Fawad as suggested by you will prevent any such thing happening in future.
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