so, how about that ptcl

General discussion about PLUC and Linux in Pakistan.

Postby lambda » Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:11 am

if wrote:DNO and ISP normally blame PTCL because of it's monoply.... but Now after deregulation why they are not investing... before this they (DNO and ISP) offered large scale investment after the deregulation policy... but where their offers are... where they go???


there is flag. their rates are cheaper than ptcl's. they may not be locally owned, but they're competition.

i hope you're not talking about the recent deregulation. if you read the text, there's really not much in there about data communication; it's about voice calls. and even if it did apply to data communication, whoever set up a company has to pay $500,000 for the license plus put up a $10,000,000 (that's right, count those zeros) bond. they also have to own 100% of their network within 5 or so years of operation (ie, can't use ptcl's fiber links). how many isps do you know that have that kind of money sitting around? $10.5 million -- and that's not counting the cost of the equipment, or payroll.

But now there is not PTCL who to be blamed... now i see... that these people (DNO and ISP) are need to be blamed for nothing they do for this country and people... because they need deregulation of Telecommunication and Internet sector and Government did for them and for the future and betterness of this country....


let me ask you this: can you set up a two-directional satellite-based isp? no. so, what's been deregulated, really? flag's link ends at karachi; flag uses (or has to use, depending on how you look at it) ptcl's network to get to lhe or isb.

Now i request them... to come infront and purchase Large Bandwith for u'r bussiness... and also improve the rates of Internet (Dialup is approx. free in most of country) and come up... with more security policy and with technical team who can handle the DoS and DDoS and other attacks... so we can see... what u ppl said in Past is a TRUTH and also prove that PTCL is fact didn't perform well in past....


what planet are you living on? don't you have dsl providers in your area? last i checked, ptcl isn't offering dsl. isn't that proof that isps are doing something?
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Re: ptcl damn sh*t

Postby lambda » Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:21 am

umair007 wrote:i hope ptcl changes the phone lines because they are crap sh*t my pc only connects at 36 or some time 46 kbps per second although i have a top rod modem and people with the same in america connect at 52 and 56


if you have $10,000 you can get a license to run your own local cabling in your neighborhood to the exchange. heck, you can set up your own exchange! just get a few pri connections to the local ptcl exchange and you're in business.

ball's in your court, bub.
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another point

Postby lambda » Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:19 pm

to make: the other day i was at someone's office in lahore. he was ssh'd to an isp's server just outside islamabad (he was helping set it up). as i watched him type, i remarked that his link seemed very laggy.

he did a traceroute, and amazingly enough, his packets were going from lahore to karachi to islamabad.

only with ptcl would that make sense.

it's even worse: if you use flag, your packets go all the way out to the states or europe before returning. so, you're in lhe, on a flag link, and you connect to a machine on the ptcl network in lhe same city. your packets will take 400+ms to get there, best case.

today, i came across this article: http://www.dawn.com/2003/08/08/nat10.htm. i quote the last paragraph:

They said the PTCL was also introducing a new concept which, in technical parlance, was known as peering. "The Internet traffic of the country goes to the United States. The new technology would allow Internet service providers not to send the Internet traffic intended for a server in the country to go to the US," they said.


imagine that! isps operating in this country for about a decade, and only now is ptcl going to set up peering!

(yes, i know isps resisted peering. they were afraid ptcl would block voice chat sites...and that's already happened on the stm1 link.)

btw, the service level agreement says ptcl will provide 99.98% uptime. that means ptcl has to be down for more than 14 hours a month before they pay any compensation to isps.

14 hours a month. an hour every other day.
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ptcl is a big Elephant ..its going on STRUTS

Postby farhanksa » Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:19 am

aoa
ptcl is a big Elephant ..its going on and on..
first of all if ptcl wants to do some thing..they can do it.. bcz they got enough of the money...
they r making money ..once invested and life time profit.
another thing is wt ever ptcl do ..they ppl who want to use vioce will use and ptcl will not stop them :)

i also noticed that using the same isp in different cities (who provide roaming) i use to tracert the ip and it goes to ...lots of places adn then enteres again pakista :) fazool sair karta hua pohancta hay :)

y dont ptcl run its seprate routing protocol within its own autonomus region rather than sending data over stm-singtel..so that trafic of pakistan who destination is in pakistan should move with in pakistan
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Re: ptcl is a big Elephant ..its going on STRUTS

Postby lambda » Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:40 pm

farhanksa wrote:i also noticed that using the same isp in different cities (who provide roaming) i use to tracert the ip and it goes to ...lots of places adn then enteres again pakista :) fazool sair karta hua pohancta hay :)


that's how things work if you use a satellite-based isp. are you sure the isp wasn't using that?

y dont ptcl run its seprate routing protocol within its own autonomus region rather than sending data over stm-singtel..so that trafic of pakistan who destination is in pakistan should move with in pakistan


they do run bgp and such. i don't know if they use ibgp or something for their own networks.
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Re: ptcl is a big Elephant ..its going on STRUTS

Postby if » Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:53 pm

Aslam-o-Aliakum,

lambda wrote:that's how things work if you use a satellite-based isp. are you sure the isp wasn't using that?


yes... u r right... lambda... but do u know, most of them are using illegally (no licence etc.)... that where i said... most of ISP and DNO want the easy money production way... they even don't want to facilicate their customers... only want big money... they don't see how this badly effect our country... only they want easy money (i said they are even worst than Samugulars and terrists)...

Now there is open option to have an healthy competition with PTCL... but they want easy money they want only open market for everything and want no check and balance on them... as our politian want???

Only $10,00,000... and they are saying... read those zeros... but when they want earning... they don't bother about zeros...

So i say... they (ISPs and DNOs) infact don't want to invest... they want only earn... by any means :(
if u find anything which shows my lack of knowledge,
please guide me... thx
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Postby linuxgeek » Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:03 pm

Hello there,

That's my ISP, I pay a large amount of money just to be sure I am "CONNECTED" to internet at a nice speed .. am used to broadband for a long time. And this is the result.
STM1 155Mb to LA 3:55:10 PM 93 ms
STM1 155Mb to NY 3:55:24 PM Failed

The NY STM1 link fails about 30 - 40 times each day. I dont know what the heck is wrong with it. But it gets me creeps down my spine with slow speed. Offcourse people on dialups dont notice it :( they are already tired of the slow speed.

smw3-backup 3:55:25 PM 193 ms

This is the damn SMW-III backup. and yes my packets to other isps like PakNET used to go all over to emix and come back .. Thank Allah , I have some nice admins @ my ISP to fix this problem atleast.

PTCL should hire / contract a team of Network Consultants, they can get them from TREMU .. but still TREMU is nothing .. its just a platform to get the people 'THEY" want in :(

just my $0.02

regards

~uppal
Junaid Saeed Uppal
uppal at linux dot net dot pk
Cell : +92.345.8586045
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Re: ptcl is a big Elephant ..its going on STRUTS

Postby lambda » Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:33 am

if wrote:yes... u r right... lambda... but do u know, most of them are using illegally (no licence etc.)...


an isp that uses a satellite downlink is perfectly legal. you don't even need a license for this.

that where i said... most of ISP and DNO want the easy money production way... they even don't want to facilicate their customers... only want big money... they don't see how this badly effect our country... only they want easy money (i said they are even worst than Samugulars and terrists)...


this is simply not true. i've seen what many of the large isp owners (wol, nexlinx, etc) have done to fight ptcl for a fair deal. it's taken years for this. think back to how things were five years ago, how much you were paying per hour.

Now there is open option to have an healthy competition with PTCL... but they want easy money they want only open market for everything and want no check and balance on them... as our politian want???


perhaps you need to look up the word "deregulation" in a dictionary.

Only $10,00,000... and they are saying... read those zeros... but when they want earning... they don't bother about zeros...


look: before continuing with this line of thought, i think you should find someone at an isp and get the numbers. the two isps i've seen, even with 500-600 lines that max out at night, don't make money. bandwidth and other operational costs are very high.

also, again: how many isps do you know that have $10 million lying around? even worldcall, which has an extensive cable internet network in lhe, has stopped expanding.

So i say... they (ISPs and DNOs) infact don't want to invest... they want only earn... by any means :(


yes, you keep saying that, but your arguments are extremely weak.
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Postby lambda » Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:38 am

linuxgeek wrote:The NY STM1 link fails about 30 - 40 times each day. I dont know what the heck is wrong with it. But it gets me creeps down my spine with slow speed. Offcourse people on dialups dont notice it :( they are already tired of the slow speed.


i notice such problems because i play rtcw and rtcw:et on dialup. on a good day i get ~ 300ms to servers in singapore, and the game's playable. this only happens late at night (4am onwards), and not all the time, even. some days, for no reason at all, i'm bumped to 400+ms for the same servers.

PTCL should hire / contract a team of Network Consultants, they can get them from TREMU .. but still TREMU is nothing .. its just a platform to get the people 'THEY" want in :(


sysnet (hah) worked with ptcl for a while, but ptcl decided not to renew their contract, right around the time the denial of service attacks became fierce.
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wt about the ppl who waist b/w for porn sites

Postby farhanksa » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:56 am

aoa

wt about the ppl who waist b/w for porn sites. as u kno wimages makes the b/w choke and porn site have lots of images..
even though ptcl tried to block them but still porn sites r opened by the ppl who use to do that????
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Re: wt about the ppl who waist b/w for porn sites

Postby lambda » Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:05 pm

farhanksa wrote:wt about the ppl who waist b/w for porn sites. as u kno wimages makes the b/w choke and porn site have lots of images..
even though ptcl tried to block them but still porn sites r opened by the ppl who use to do that????


i don't understand what you're trying to say here.
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Re: wt about the ppl who waist b/w for porn sites

Postby if » Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:07 pm

Aslam-o-Aliakum,

farhanksa wrote:aoa
wt about the ppl who waist b/w for porn sites. as u kno wimages makes the b/w choke and porn site have lots of images..
even though ptcl tried to block them but still porn sites r opened by the ppl who use to do that????


yaar farhan... why u are worried about bandwidth :lol:
if u find anything which shows my lack of knowledge,

please guide me... thx

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