just a thought

General discussion about PLUC and Linux in Pakistan.

Postby Faraz.Fazil » Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:09 pm

Yup, thats rite but Redhat is equally good for newbies, experts and system administrators alike.

Also as i stated in my earlier posts, there is not such significant difference between the distros.So choosing a distro is not something to worry that much about.

farhantoqeer wrote:So, i think the conclusiion is SELECT DISTRO WHICH BEST SUITS YOU. But for newbies RedHat is a default choice (talking about only in pakistan dont have idea about other countries) because here we have so called little support availavble for RedHat and a new one can stuck with it.
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Postby cwackked » Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:34 pm

Alright,
I didnt want to reply to the naive comments as it has gone long enough already. I was surprised to see some of the posts, Faraz Fazils comments for instance, seem bilateral. On one side you want the user to chose on their own and then you say that "REDHAT IS THE BEST" atleast thats how it appears to me. I did not and still do not mean any offense to ANYONE so please stop pissing off for one. I do agree that red is a fine distro for all of you that have chosen it. But if youre looking at it from a "newbie's" point of view as Farhan Toqeer pointed out, ill tell you this much, Mandrake comes with a lot more packages in its distros and has most of the dependencies already provided ( i know its not recommended for server use but we are considering new users here!). Its rpm packaging system is also better for the newbie and as for support, as Faraz Fazil pointed out..that all the distros are basically the same then I think that isnt a valid point to consider just Redhat. I apologize for having posted my thhoughts..didnt realize its considered blasphemy here..
peace
-umer
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Postby Faraz.Fazil » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:05 pm

Lol.
COme on guyz,. i dont see anything wrong or naive or offensive being said here
We are just having a discussion and nothing more.

Such discussions are good indeed.

My comments were not bilateral.

Most ppl here would agree with me when i said that most distros are similar, and not much difference exists between them.This was my main point, not that redhat was best or not.

In fact it was not me ,but you ckawackked, who kept on saying that debian was best and debian should be preffered over redhat.It was due to this that i posted the plus points of redhat.

Its good to let ppl know your view and experiences, but in open source you should not discourage use of any open source product.

BUt i do agree that it is not a valid point to just consider redhat, since i already elaborated that most distros are very similar.WHat i meant was the main point that they are similar.For this very reason, i said you should use the distro u prefer.But as others said, redhat, and mandrake are thos most easily available distros in pakistan.

I hope any misunderstanding is now removed
No offences

Keep up the good discussions.

Again the conclusion:

Most distributions are similar to each other., choose the distro that best suits you

cwackked wrote:Alright,
I didnt want to reply to the naive comments as it has gone long enough already. I was surprised to see some of the posts, Faraz Fazils comments for instance, seem bilateral. On one side you want the user to chose on their own and then you say that "REDHAT IS THE BEST" atleast thats how it appears to me. I did not and still do not mean any offense to ANYONE so please stop pissing off for one. I do agree that red is a fine distro for all of you that have chosen it. But if youre looking at it from a "newbie's" point of view as Farhan Toqeer pointed out, ill tell you this much, Mandrake comes with a lot more packages in its distros and has most of the dependencies already provided ( i know its not recommended for server use but we are considering new users here!). Its rpm packaging system is also better for the newbie and as for support, as Faraz Fazil pointed out..that all the distros are basically the same then I think that isnt a valid point to consider just Redhat. I apologize for having posted my thhoughts..didnt realize its considered blasphemy here..
peace
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Postby gh4z4nf4r » Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:48 am

aoa,
i like redhat too.Good for every one ,beginners and experienced .And what more, mostly available. About the popularity of redhat here where i live i can only say that most of the people have the impression that redhat is the linux because it is the only available distribution they can see in the cd shops.But i think that trend of availability is changing with the efforts of linuxpakistan as i felt so good when one of my friend bought redhat 9 cds and said to me that it was from your linuxpakistan.as it was printed on the cover.It is also encouraging to see that mostly used distos are all equally available from linuxpakistan.Like most of the users here in pakistan i dont have enough speed to download any distro but was happy to found out that engarde linux was also available .
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just a thought

Postby mahin » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:07 am

Faraz.Fazil wrote:Lol.
<snip>
<snip>But as others said, redhat, and mandrake are thos most easily available distros in pakistan.

I hope any misunderstanding is now removed
No offences

Keep up the good discussions.
<snip>


Agree and accept the guilt as charged :). We are trying to rectify the situation, just to prove that we are not sleeping :) please proceed to http://linuxchopal.com/pluc_cd/ and suggest what else need to be added to the list.

Use Vector as model and suggest which design be used for others like Red Had, Debian, etc.

Suggest what information be provided on the back title.

Volunteer to adopt one distro you use and help in slection of design for Title and text for back title.

Any one willing to help ? :) Please post your comments here or send me private message or you can email me cd-at-linux-dot-net-dot-pk
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Re: just a thought

Postby kadnan » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:06 pm

mahin wrote:
Use Vector as model and suggest which design be used for others like Red Had, Debian, etc.

Suggest what information be provided on the back title.

Volunteer to adopt one distro you use and help in slection of design for Title and text for back title.

Any one willing to help ? :) Please post your comments here or send me private message or you can email me cd-at-linux-dot-net-dot-pk


Whenever i get the money to buy CR writer,I will burn a CD which will have Linux based Applications not Distros..I have been trying to do that for more than year but didn`t get a chance yet..i asked others to do so but nobody came up..so now I will burn one Cd myself..we DO need some Linux Installer CD like windows Applications.I hope this dream will come true.Inshallah
:)
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Re: just a thought

Postby mahin » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:16 pm

kadnan wrote:

Whenever i get the money to buy CR writer,I will burn a CD which will have Linux based Applications not Distros..I have been trying to do that for more than year but didn`t get a chance yet..i asked others to do so but nobody came up..so now I will burn one Cd myself..we DO need some Linux Installer CD like windows Applications.I hope this dream will come true.Inshallah
:)


No need to supress your dreams :) give it a try. You [ for this matter any one ] can use our systems [ PI, PII and PIII ] two each at PLUC Karachi btw PIII have CDR others with CD-ROM. to try and test what you want. You can burn your ISO on your Hard Disk and then bring here to burn on CDR. We can lend a small Hard Disk if you need one to carry data [ this means two trips :) ] if required.

Now you have to think of some other reason for not persuing your dreams . :wink:
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Re: just a thought

Postby kadnan » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:57 am

mahin wrote:
No need to supress your dreams :) give it a try. You [ for this matter any one ] can use our systems [ PI, PII and PIII ] two each at PLUC Karachi btw PIII have CDR others with CD-ROM. to try and test what you want. You can burn your ISO on your Hard Disk and then bring here to burn on CDR. We can lend a small Hard Disk if you need one to carry data [ this means two trips :) ] if required.

Now you have to think of some other reason for not persuing your dreams . :wink:


:),Salam tariq saab,actually i could download softwares on my harddisk,my cable connection is very good and often get speed @40-50 KB/sec.
actually i am thinking that should I take care of some specific distro? for example REDHAT,DEBIAN etc or just get tar balls?there is no prblem to get tarballs only but how many ppl can do things like 1)./configure 2) make 3)make install ??

i was thinking to concentrate on Tar GZ and RPM only(i myself is a redhat user:) )
so, for example if i am downloading XMMS then there would be 2 different packages for XMMS only

MULTIMEDIA
=========
1) xmms.x.x.x.gz
xmms.x.x.rpm

linux softwares are not so big at all..I have download different Mobile software toolkits from Nokia and complete toolkit from SYMBIAN..so i would like to share these heavy weight toolkits with my PLUCians friends.
lets see when it happens:>
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no problem for users i think

Postby farhanksa » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:19 pm

dont worry
go for tarballs , .gz and rpm
users wil learn how to use all of them no problem....they must be sticky enough to do wor under linux
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Postby Faraz.Fazil » Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:29 pm

As i explained in an earlier post of mine:

Apps for linux are available in two forms:

1.Sources....normally in compressed .tar.gz or bz2 format
Basically you compile the sources on your system using the make commands.So sources can be installed on any distro.But it has some drawbacks which i have explained later

2.Distros's proprietary format.

You all know these.Like rpm files in redhat and mandrake and .deb files in debian etc

These can only be installed on their respective distro.But they can be installed very quickly effeciently and without much effort.But there main problem is availablity and also sometimes too many dependencies errors occur.

Well.
I always recommend installing rpms over sources, if the rpms are available.

Compiling sources takes a hell of time in some cases, and is a cumbersome process, although a few simple commands are involved.But the thing is since you compile all the scripts so it takes a lot of time compared to rpms and many errors often arise as well.

Now in my view it would be wise to put the linux appz in these formats on the cd:

1.Sources (.tar.gz) ( so that people using distros other than redhat, mandrake or debian can also install them)
They are the most commonly available format.Also u get the source code directly unlike rpms which require srpms for source code.

2.RPM (redhat package manager format)

RPMS can be installed on redhat and mandrake.They can also be installed on mandrake since mandrake is a derivative of redhat
Also rpms are easily available.Also we can create rpms by ourself.

3.If possible .deb (Debian package format)
But these are very scarecly available.Most appz dont have .deb packages.

I think these 3 formats would be more than enough.We could also include a install guide on the cd
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Re: just a thought

Postby lambda » Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:05 am

cwackked wrote:i have seen the forums and everyones been complaining about how their redhat has problems with sound, modem, apache, blah blah. How about trying a better distribution guys.


the problem isn't the distribution, it's linux and/or the user's familiarity with their system. it doesn't matter if they install mandrake or debian or linux-flavor-of-the-week; they still have to figure out which kernel module to load (or compile) to get their device to work.
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Postby Faraz.Fazil » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:41 am

Well said lambda!
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