Educational curriculum

General discussion about PLUC and Linux in Pakistan.

Educational curriculum

Postby afridi » Sat Sep 06, 2003 1:26 am

I was wondering if I could ask for your opinions and suggestions about the formation of a National Curriculum, staged or otherwise, for the education of Linux. (Mass and otherwise).

If it could be established that people have an opinion on the matter then I would like to use this thread to innitiate the exercise. It would assist me in my work (pet project) and would act as an informal "intellectual testbed" for a strategy.

So, what would you do if you had to educate a division (say consisting of 70,000 school goers in 4 cities, 72 towns and 368 villages) in the use, coding and development (one/all) of software in a Linux environment (in their own language....so forget teaching a foriegn language like English to them).

Suggestions ?



P.S: Thankyou for your assistance.
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Postby if » Sat Sep 06, 2003 4:36 pm

Aslam-o-Aliakum,

Idea is great :lol: but dear... we need to work!!!
if u find anything which shows my lack of knowledge,
please guide me... thx
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Re: Educational curriculum

Postby lambda » Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:17 pm

let me turn it around and ask you: why do you want this? how will you achieve it all without teaching them english?
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Re: Educational curriculum

Postby mahin » Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:14 pm

afridi wrote:I was wondering if I could ask for your opinions and suggestions about the formation of a National Curriculum, staged or otherwise, for the education of Linux. (Mass and otherwise).
<snip>
<snip> coding and development (one/all) of software in a Linux environment (in their own language....so forget teaching a foriegn language like English to them).

Suggestions ?

P.S: Thankyou for your assistance.


Two different things IMHO. A National Curriculum for teaching Computing/Linux must include English as against teaching use of computers on Linux need not require knowledge of English.

While there has been discussion or shall I say expression of interest in formulating a Curriculum for Linux but no real progress [ at least I am not aware of ].

Seems to me your target is the second part teaching use of computer in Urdu or other regional languages. This I do not think is possible now may be with some work, we may make a begining in next few months.

The big question is who is going to bell the cat ?

We need Urdu support in a Distro by default which need not be 100% even 5% will do for starter. Un-less we get the basic thing done [ Urdu text editor, Urdu support in Email client, Urdu script in Gaim or any IM client ] we can not attract people to take it seriously and start developing / translating.

You seem to be planing with some targets now how do you plan to conduct even pilot project? I do not wish to discourage you, will help you in what ever way I can.

As 'IF' said great idea but the question is who is going to work :)
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pls dont take this discusiion in very tense situation

Postby farhanksa » Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:12 pm

pls pls dont take this discusiion in very tense situation.

its good but it needs a great kick start :)
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Re: Educational curriculum

Postby Faraz.Fazil » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:20 pm

Agree with you mahin.
Well said!

mahin wrote:
afridi wrote:I was wondering if I could ask for your opinions and suggestions about the formation of a National Curriculum, staged or otherwise, for the education of Linux. (Mass and otherwise).
<snip>
<snip> coding and development (one/all) of software in a Linux environment (in their own language....so forget teaching a foriegn language like English to them).

Suggestions ?

P.S: Thankyou for your assistance.


Two different things IMHO. A National Curriculum for teaching Computing/Linux must include English as against teaching use of computers on Linux need not require knowledge of English.

While there has been discussion or shall I say expression of interest in formulating a Curriculum for Linux but no real progress [ at least I am not aware of ].

Seems to me your target is the second part teaching use of computer in Urdu or other regional languages. This I do not think is possible now may be with some work, we may make a begining in next few months.

The big question is who is going to bell the cat ?

We need Urdu support in a Distro by default which need not be 100% even 5% will do for starter. Un-less we get the basic thing done [ Urdu text editor, Urdu support in Email client, Urdu script in Gaim or any IM client ] we can not attract people to take it seriously and start developing / translating.

You seem to be planing with some targets now how do you plan to conduct even pilot project? I do not wish to discourage you, will help you in what ever way I can.

As 'IF' said great idea but the question is who is going to work :)
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Postby afridi » Sun Sep 07, 2003 6:12 am

I was aware that this might become a discussion on the present situation of Urdu based programming, none the less that is an important aspect of the thread too, if not another thread altogether.

Maybe the objections should start from the inability of CUDAR-U to bridge the gap or the lack of a universal character set for the Nastaliq or the supposed limitations of 6219, ANSC* vs UTF, not to mention the greater problem of bidirection, but the absence of a standard does not mean options do not exist or are not already being used and further developed.

Then there is the issue of localisation. This in turn diversifies into localisation of environments and environment generated software (I mean GUI driven) and the codec driven (much harder to muster at the moment .....but work is progressing).
After that we get into the whole issue of having enough tools generation in the decided code set for the more popular desktops. Add to it all the support required in the update for the environment that is the true Pandora's box .

I think the only easy mountain to climb (or should I say the one mountain that will kill you only on endurance, rather than a non arrestable slip) is that of the documentation support. Talk about ressurecting the khateeb culture :)......


and the list goes on and on..............and on yet more......

Therefore, lets not get into a debate ragarding that. With regards to the apps that have been stated, yes, they are very important, but lets not over estimate the work required once a standard (or option) has been selected.

With regards to barriers, there were many that have been overcome...and there are yet quite a few that are still in the way......but lets leave that discussion for another thread.

So, lets get back to the curriculum with an understanding that "fluency" (grammatical and otherwise) in English is irrelevant to success in programming and start to iron out what you guys would think as a good forward looking system of education.

so, to re-start the thread a fresh, the following assumptions hold true:

1. You have at your disposal a R-L enabled distribution available under a 2.4.x

2. You have an institution available for text translation and reserach critique of major research papers.

3. You have the budget to deal with a nationwide program.

4. You have an eventual goal of creating an information systems literate population, with varying degrees of literacy.


One final note.....could you also assume that this is a Nationwide implementation, but it is not a Government driven implementation.

Those are the assumptions as they stand, now lets hear some suggestions.......
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Postby cwackked » Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:19 am

then what are you waiting for?
:p
-umer
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Postby afridi » Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:42 pm

I think a last stab at reason... and then I'll probably ask for the thread to be curtailed.

but first.....


As I said, the thread went to the "but we dont have this"...."we do not have that" route and inevitably became a dead end. What was asked for was a series of suggestions based on the CONTENT of EDUCATIONAL material....what we got was a bandwagon of ...stating our shortcomings.

Maybe, no one is ready yet, but when everything is ready and available, ........then the input that I have requested from you..............would not be required anymore, as work would have already commenced on the curriculum's implementation.
Then, such insight would not be required.

Work on the environment, character coding, R-L/Bi direction and localisation projects has moved a lot forward than what people seem to have investigated. I urge first to carry out that investigation, and then try to place the shortcomings aside....so that we can concentrate on formulating suggestions for the curriculum....

Lets try it atleast....so that when things are actually finalised.... you do not have to stand there with your suggestions then falling on someone's deaf ears.

Could we ?
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Postby eternal peace » Sun Sep 14, 2003 1:59 am

i think first we have to start translation of the desktop envirnoments like Gnome or KDE.i'm saying this b/c i was reading about the new Gnome 2.4 release it has even got the support for "Bengali".and in Bangladesh they are working like a community for the translation programme.Then why not "Urdu".

Gnome has also got Gnome Translation Project (GTP ) in which we can contribute and start a team for Urdu Gnome (which has not been created yet).

so it will not require any knowledge of prog. we just have to translate.

I think PLUC should take this thing under consideration b/c this can be acieveable.and it will help alot to Pakistani ppl and this will also increase linux usage.

any suggestions???
hail to linux!!!
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Postby if » Mon Sep 15, 2003 3:55 pm

Aslam-o-Aliakum,

afridi wrote:I think a last stab at reason... and then I'll probably ask for the thread to be curtailed.

but first.....


As I said, the thread went to the "but we dont have this"...."we do not have that" route and inevitably became a dead end. What was asked for was a series of suggestions based on the CONTENT of EDUCATIONAL material....what we got was a bandwagon of ...stating our shortcomings.

Maybe, no one is ready yet, but when everything is ready and available, ........then the input that I have requested from you..............would not be required anymore, as work would have already commenced on the curriculum's implementation.
Then, such insight would not be required.

Work on the environment, character coding, R-L/Bi direction and localisation projects has moved a lot forward than what people seem to have investigated. I urge first to carry out that investigation, and then try to place the shortcomings aside....so that we can concentrate on formulating suggestions for the curriculum....

Lets try it atleast....so that when things are actually finalised.... you do not have to stand there with your suggestions then falling on someone's deaf ears.

Could we ?


if want to do something... then don't bothers about "BUT and we don't have this and that" only convience those... who want to do something... don't waste time on BUTs and IFs (my forum id is if don't cosider this if:lol: )... where ever i can help... i do... INSHALLAH
if u find anything which shows my lack of knowledge,

please guide me... thx

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Postby fawad » Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:06 pm

<disclaimer>I am not an educator and I don't claim to be one</disclaimer>

afridi, I'd look at the existing curriculum (sic) that have been already created. Some places that come to mind include



Redhat started a new grassroots project for developing Linux curriculum very recently but the URL escapes me right now. I'll post it as soon as I find it.

Regards
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Postby farhanksa » Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:25 am

aoa

any one currently working on the GNOME URDU project.........

hered that some of the fast students r working on uni-code???
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Postby farhanksa » Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:26 am

aoa

any one currently working on the GNOME URDU project.........

hered that some of the fast students r working on uni-code???
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Postby LinuxFreaK » Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:32 pm

Dear All PLUCian's
Salam,

farhanksa wrote:aoa

any one currently working on the GNOME URDU project.........

hered that some of the fast students r working on uni-code???


farhanksa, they are working on that project. as they post in http://lists.isb.sdnpk.org/pipermail/pl ... 00130.html
may be they will soon launch the Gnome Urdu Project. also Check this out http://www.expresscomputeronline.com/20 ... omp4.shtml may be help you alot if you are planing to working on a GNOME Urdu Project

Best Regards.
Farrukh Ahmed
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